Averno time canceled + a message to all winboarders.

[Alexandre Côme]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Alexandre Côme at 22 March 2000 19:03:18:
To winboarders,
My idea is cancelled because no people want to play 2 games.
It's a pity ((
WHERE ARE FRANK, DJORDJE , VOLKER , PETE , MOGENS , DANN , JOHAN , ANDREAS etc..... ?
Why are you interested in winboard programs ?
For analysis games ?
I don't think because you have just to buy a commercial program who have a more reliable analysis.
For playing thousands of automatic games ?
I think winboard programs are interested for playing against them because the have differents
styles.
I think if people don't play against them amateur programs doesn't exist.
Don't say me that you have no time because EVERYBODY can play 2 games in 10 day.
Sorry for my very bad english and bye bye.
Best Regards
Alexandre Côme

[Volker Pittlik]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Volker Pittlik at 22 March 2000 20:36:29:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Averno time canceled + a message to all winboarders. geschrieben von: / posted by: Alexandre Côme at 22 March 2000 19:03:18:

To winboarders,
My idea is cancelled because no people want to play 2 games.
It's a pity ((
WHERE ARE ...VOLKER ... ?
Why are you interested in winboard programs ?
For analysis games ?
I don't think because you have just to buy a commercial program who have a more reliable analysis.
For playing thousands of automatic games ?
I think winboard programs are interested for playing against them because the have differents
styles.
I think if people don't play against them amateur programs doesn't exist.
Don't say me that you have no time because EVERYBODY can play 2 games in 10 day.
Sorry for my very bad english and bye bye.

I'm here, coming home after spending nine and a half hours in the office.
I don't know how reliable the analysis of the commercial programs are. I think they are as good as the analysis of strong WB-engines as Crafty, LG, SOS...
I own some of them but I don't use them very often. I simply prefer WB-engines because some of them come with source code and my interests are now changing to programming. Also all these pages has been set up because I was interested in HTML when I created them.
Surely, I sometimes play against them and I _allways_ loose (execpt a dumped down Crafty). I am simply a very bad player in fact. My FICS-rating is about 1200. I use to play sometimes some blitz games against a colleague who has an established rating about 1700 Elo and he is winning 5 out of 6 games. I think it is not very intersting for you (and you _are_ a strong player as most of us know) to see me loosing against Averno. Also I don't like to publish my
(-: master games here. Nevertheless I love chess. I also love music, but I can not imagine that you would like to hear me singing.
I don't agree with you in this point. I think the creation of a program benefits the author by itself.
No sorry, my last Fics game has been in January IIRC and my last game against a human took place in the last millenium. I am a competitive badminton player and I need two evenings per week for my training for example.
Oops, please don't go. Dann Corbit is looking for several hundreds of volunteers for his "Battle of the crowns" tournament. Andreas Schwartmann is looking for people who want to play some fun games at FICS. As far as I know, there are three volunteers for Andreas so far and less than ten for Dann. I think it would be absolutely bad if they withdraw for this reason.
Best Regards
Volker Pittlik

[pete]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: pete at 22 March 2000 20:51:14:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Averno time canceled + a message to all winboarders. geschrieben von: / posted by: Alexandre Côme at 22 March 2000 19:03:18:

To winboarders,
My idea is cancelled because no people want to play 2 games.
It's a pity ((
WHERE ARE FRANK, DJORDJE , VOLKER , PETE , MOGENS , DANN , JOHAN , ANDREAS etc..... ?
Why are you interested in winboard programs ?
For analysis games ?
I don't think because you have just to buy a commercial program who have a more reliable analysis.
For playing thousands of automatic games ?
I think winboard programs are interested for playing against them because the have differents
styles.
I think if people don't play against them amateur programs doesn't exist.
Don't say me that you have no time because EVERYBODY can play 2 games in 10 day.
Sorry for my very bad english and bye bye.
Best Regards
Alexandre Côme

Hi passionate man ,
thanks for reminding us of your project ; although I can safely say that I didn't play thousands of automatic games in the meantime
Sorry for the delay and not keeping promise in time ..
Ok , so I downloaded averno right away and started with game 1.
Averno played on PIII 500 with 48MB Hash ; Game/60 ; all information disabled.
In fact I have never seen a game of Averno before so I was expecting the worst for me .
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site ""]
[Date "2000.03.22"]
[Round "-"]
[White "pete"]
[Black "AvernoHT48"]
[Result "0-1"]
[TimeControl "3600"]
1. d4 g6 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bf4 Bg7 4. Nbd2 d5 5. h3 O-O 6. e3 Nh5 7. Bh2 c6 8.
c3 Qb6 9. Qb3 Qxb3 10. axb3 Be6 11. b4 Nd7 12. Nb3 a6 13. Bd3 Nhf6 14. Na5
Ra7 15. Ne5 Nxe5 16. Bxe5 Ne4 17. Bc7 Bc8 18. f3 Nd6 19. Nb3 Bh6 20. Kf2
Re8 21. g4 b5 22. Bxd6 exd6 23. f4 Rae7 24. Rhe1 Bg7 25. Kf3 Bf6 26. e4
dxe4+ 27. Rxe4 Be6 28. Rae1 Bxb3
{White resigns} 0-1
Well , I overlooked the double-threat on e4 and on b3 in the end but also think I have maybe overrated averno before the game ; averno played a few moves which look bad like 10. ... Be6 and 21. ... b5 ; also I think as I missed 17. ... Bc8 after 17. Bc7 white should have had a nice little edge after 17. Bxg7 .
Also averno was out of book after move 3 ;-0 )
Time control was also a problem ; at move 25 I had about 15 minutes left and felt already uncomfortable with that .
Even better averno created a big logfile which tells me a lot about what it thought.
We humans need hope ; I want to take revenge in the other game with black
pete

[Dann Corbit]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Dann Corbit at 22 March 2000 21:03:15:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: Averno time canceled + a message to all winboarders. geschrieben von: / posted by: Volker Pittlik at 22 March 2000 20:36:29:
[snip]

Don't say me that you have no time because EVERYBODY can play 2 games in 10 day.

Sorry for my very bad english and bye bye.
Oops, please don't go. Dann Corbit is looking for several hundreds of volunteers for his "Battle of the crowns" tournament. Andreas Schwartmann is looking for people who want to play some fun games at FICS. As far as I know, there are three volunteers for Andreas so far and less than ten for Dann. I think it would be absolutely bad if they withdraw for this reason.

Of course. It usually takes me about 4 hours to play a game at 40/2, except when I get clobbered right off the bat. However, I have a full time job (I actually work about 50 hours a week). I have a beautiful wife and 3 wonderful sons (but only two are still at home, the oldest one is married now). I have congregation obligations (last Sunday I gave a public talk, and that requires at least 4 hours of preparation for me -- tonight I have a part in front of a large audience with two other gentlemen, so we will have to reherse). I have many other hobbies besides chess. And for chess, I spend time administrating the CAP project. And I have these wonderful German friends that always want me to port programs for them.
I think the problem for your project is lack of advertizing. It is an interesting project, but did you (for instance) put messages on USENET or make some shouts in both FICS and ICC? If you put some large amounts of effort into it, I think you will get volunteers.
I won't give up on the project. I may try some advertizements on USENET and some more messages in this forum and others. Along with that (and even more important) will be messages on FICS servers all over the world looking for volunteers, and messages to John Perry's contest announcement service, and some shouts on ICC looking for volunteers. And if I get no volunteers at all, I have several hundred machines at my disposal anyway. I can do it myself if no one else is interested.

[Alexandre Côme]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Alexandre Côme at 22 March 2000 21:17:59:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: ok ok ; let's go ... geschrieben von: / posted by: pete at 22 March 2000 20:51:14:

To winboarders,
My idea is cancelled because no people want to play 2 games.
It's a pity ((
WHERE ARE FRANK, DJORDJE , VOLKER , PETE , MOGENS , DANN , JOHAN , ANDREAS etc..... ?
Why are you interested in winboard programs ?
For analysis games ?
I don't think because you have just to buy a commercial program who have a more reliable analysis.
For playing thousands of automatic games ?
I think winboard programs are interested for playing against them because the have differents
styles.
I think if people don't play against them amateur programs doesn't exist.
Don't say me that you have no time because EVERYBODY can play 2 games in 10 day.
Sorry for my very bad english and bye bye.
Best Regards
Alexandre Côme

Hi passionate man ,
thanks for reminding us of your project ; although I can safely say that I didn't play thousands of automatic games in the meantime
Sorry for the delay and not keeping promise in time ..
Ok , so I downloaded averno right away and started with game 1.
Averno played on PIII 500 with 48MB Hash ; Game/60 ; all information disabled.
In fact I have never seen a game of Averno before so I was expecting the worst for me .
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site ""]
[Date "2000.03.22"]
[Round "-"]
[White "pete"]
[Black "AvernoHT48"]
[Result "0-1"]
[TimeControl "3600"]
1. d4 g6 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bf4 Bg7 4. Nbd2 d5 5. h3 O-O 6. e3 Nh5 7. Bh2 c6 8.
c3 Qb6 9. Qb3 Qxb3 10. axb3 Be6 11. b4 Nd7 12. Nb3 a6 13. Bd3 Nhf6 14. Na5
Ra7 15. Ne5 Nxe5 16. Bxe5 Ne4 17. Bc7 Bc8 18. f3 Nd6 19. Nb3 Bh6 20. Kf2
Re8 21. g4 b5 22. Bxd6 exd6 23. f4 Rae7 24. Rhe1 Bg7 25. Kf3 Bf6 26. e4
dxe4+ 27. Rxe4 Be6 28. Rae1 Bxb3
{White resigns} 0-1
Well , I overlooked the double-threat on e4 and on b3 in the end but also think I have maybe overrated averno before the game ; averno played a few moves which look bad like 10. ... Be6 and 21. ... b5 ; also I think as I missed 17. ... Bc8 after 17. Bc7 white should have had a nice little edge after 17. Bxg7 .
Also averno was out of book after move 3 ;-0 )
Time control was also a problem ; at move 25 I had about 15 minutes left and felt already uncomfortable with that .
Even better averno created a big logfile which tells me a lot about what it thought.
We humans need hope ; I want to take revenge in the other game with black
pete

Hello pete,
Thank you for playing !!
Good luck for your second game.
Best Regards
Alexandre Côme

[Pete Galati]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Pete Galati at 22 March 2000 21:42:40:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Averno time canceled + a message to all winboarders. geschrieben von: / posted by: Alexandre Côme at 22 March 2000 19:03:18:

To winboarders,
My idea is cancelled because no people want to play 2 games.
It's a pity ((
WHERE ARE FRANK, DJORDJE , VOLKER , PETE , MOGENS , DANN , JOHAN , ANDREAS etc..... ?
Why are you interested in winboard programs ?
For analysis games ?
I don't think because you have just to buy a commercial program who have a more reliable analysis.
For playing thousands of automatic games ?
I think winboard programs are interested for playing against them because the have differents
styles.
I think if people don't play against them amateur programs doesn't exist.
Don't say me that you have no time because EVERYBODY can play 2 games in 10 day.
Sorry for my very bad english and bye bye.
Best Regards
Alexandre Côme

I don't have a good excuse (my dog ate it). I think the suggestion of the long time controls prevented me from spending the time to play the games. I usually play games at 60 moves in 10 minutes. My mind no longer works well enough for longer time controls to help me, because I can't think several moves ahead, sometimes I can see 3 moves ahead, not often.
I aggree with you that Winboard programs are interesting to play against, I'd consider Winboard/Xboard to be one of the most important things to happen to computer Chess, it's brought everyone such a large variety of programs with many different personalities. I wish I had started using it sooner.
Pete

[Djordje Vidanovic]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Djordje Vidanovic at 22 March 2000 22:25:54:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Averno time canceled + a message to all winboarders. geschrieben von: / posted by: Alexandre Côme at 22 March 2000 19:03:18:

To winboarders,
My idea is cancelled because no people want to play 2 games.
It's a pity ((
WHERE ARE FRANK, DJORDJE , VOLKER , PETE , MOGENS , DANN , JOHAN , ANDREAS etc..... ?
Why are you interested in winboard programs ?
For analysis games ?
I don't think because you have just to buy a commercial program who have a more reliable analysis.
For playing thousands of automatic games ?
I think winboard programs are interested for playing against them because the have differents
styles.
I think if people don't play against them amateur programs doesn't exist.
Don't say me that you have no time because EVERYBODY can play 2 games in 10 day.
Sorry for my very bad english and bye bye.
Best Regards
Alexandre Côme

Dear Alexandre,
I play against WB programs for the same reason that you seem to play against them: to enjoy different styles, "different personalities" incorporated in them, to test my own playing strength, to try out ideas, etc. However, I play them at rather fast time controls, up to 10 or 15 min per game. I play when I have time and I am afraid that I do not have much time ( I have classes at the University during the week, as well as additional seminars, etc. Then at night I read and/or try my hand at playing on ICC or playing chess against a program. On weekends my wife and I either visit friends or go out to the theatre or cinema. Not much time, I am afraid. Oh, from time to time there is a spot of free time, but I simply can't count on it.
It is extremely difficult for me to play two (obligatory) games in ten days, and I tend not to give promises that I can't keep.
About your English: it is just fine ) Thank you for pursuing your idea, I do hope that some people will be able to help you carry it out.
*** Djordje

[Mogens Larsen]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Mogens Larsen at 22 March 2000 23:29:26:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Averno time canceled + a message to all winboarders. geschrieben von: / posted by: Alexandre Côme at 22 March 2000 19:03:18:

To winboarders,
My idea is cancelled because no people want to play 2 games.
It's a pity ((
WHERE ARE FRANK, DJORDJE , VOLKER , PETE , MOGENS , DANN , JOHAN , ANDREAS etc..... ?
Why are you interested in winboard programs ?
For analysis games ?
I don't think because you have just to buy a commercial program who have a more reliable analysis.
For playing thousands of automatic games ?
I think winboard programs are interested for playing against them because the have differents
styles.
I think if people don't play against them amateur programs doesn't exist.
Don't say me that you have no time because EVERYBODY can play 2 games in 10 day.
Sorry for my very bad english and bye bye.
Best Regards
Alexandre Côme

I can only speak for myself. I'm in Aalborg in Denmark currently trying to write a historical paper on the history of the Roman Empire for no pleasure but my own and I'm getting nowhere.
The possibility of loosing miserably to a lot of different engines has a drawing effect.
No, except Crafty once in a while.
Well, I'm saving money for a dual Kryotech so that's not an option.
It's fun watching automatic games, pretending to be a good chess player.
Furniture is still in the room when the light is turned off.
I'll try to swallow my pride and loose to Averno for your enjoyment.
Best wishes...
Mogens

MCL

[Gabor Szots]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Gabor Szots at 23 March 2000 09:05:50:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Averno time canceled + a message to all winboarders. geschrieben von: / posted by: Alexandre Côme at 22 March 2000 19:03:18:

To winboarders,
My idea is cancelled because no people want to play 2 games.
It's a pity ((
WHERE ARE FRANK, DJORDJE , VOLKER , PETE , MOGENS , DANN , JOHAN , ANDREAS etc..... ?
Why are you interested in winboard programs ?
For analysis games ?
I don't think because you have just to buy a commercial program who have a more reliable analysis.
For playing thousands of automatic games ?
I think winboard programs are interested for playing against them because the have differents
styles.
I think if people don't play against them amateur programs doesn't exist.
Don't say me that you have no time because EVERYBODY can play 2 games in 10 day.
Sorry for my very bad english and bye bye.
Best Regards
Alexandre Côme

Hi Alexandre,
I was feeling quite uncomfortable while the ten-day clock was ticking. Believe me, I tried so hard to play those two games. I felt kind of letting you down. But I didn't manage to make it.
You know, in chess it is harder to play under time controls. There is that stress. And to find 4 free hours (even 2) within 10 days is somewhat similar.
On workdays I get up at a quarter past 5 a.m., and get home at about 5 p.m. I have about 6 hours for activities, of which chess is one but not all. And it is not much better at the weekends: I play chess regularly in the Budapest teams championships (which has just come to the end), I am a keen bridge player taking part in many bridge competitions, I have a wife and two children.
I think many of us could tell similar things.
It is not easy. Please, be a little more patient. May I have a suggestion: don't specify the deadline (or give us more time) until which the games shall be played. If we have the time and we are in the mood, we'll play them and send them to you.
Kind regards,
Gabor