About anticomputer play

[Aaron]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Aaron at 13 July 2000 16:18:53:
It's kinda amusing to see how Junior got beaten by the stonewall attack..It's such a well known anti-computer play position, it surprising that a commerical program is not prepared for it..
Anyway, it's quite interesting to note that Yace plays almost exactly the same moves as Junior on my much slower computer..Including the Ng4 , 15..f5 move ..
Hmm..I suppose, it doesn't matter how fast your computer is..

[Han]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Han at 13 July 2000 16:43:17:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: About anticomputer play geschrieben von: / posted by: Aaron at 13 July 2000 16:18:53:

It's kinda amusing to see how Junior got beaten by the stonewall attack..It's such a well known anti-computer play position, it surprising that a commerical program is not prepared for it..
Anyway, it's quite interesting to note that Yace plays almost exactly the same moves as Junior on my much slower computer..Including the Ng4 , 15..f5 move ..
Hmm..I suppose, it doesn't matter how fast your computer is..

This means that computers have to just respect the stonewall:-)
Anyway, it is good against humans too! I have used it in tournaments will tremendous results, even strong players don't know what hit them! Anti-computer & human => anti-chess system!

[Aaron]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Aaron at 13 July 2000 19:14:11:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Stonewall System is rock solid, my favourite! geschrieben von: / posted by: Han at 13 July 2000 16:43:17:

This means that computers have to just respect the stonewall:-)
Anyway, it is good against humans too! I have used it in tournaments will >tremendous results, even strong players don't know what hit them! Anti->computer & human => anti-chess system!

Yes. I used to as well..But there must be a reason why GMs don't use it against GMs..
BTW you are Singaporean right? By strong players..who do you mean?

[Uri Blass]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Uri Blass at 13 July 2000 23:39:17:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: About anticomputer play geschrieben von: / posted by: Aaron at 13 July 2000 16:18:53:

It's kinda amusing to see how Junior got beaten by the stonewall attack..It's such a well known anti-computer play position, it surprising that a commerical program is not prepared for it..
Anyway, it's quite interesting to note that Yace plays almost exactly the same moves as Junior on my much slower computer..Including the Ng4 , 15..f5 move ..
Hmm..I suppose, it doesn't matter how fast your computer is..

Ng4 and f5 were the right moves.
The real mistakes of Junior were after it.
Kramnik say that g6 and Nxd2 were mistakes in chessbase site.
Amir Ban claimed that Kh8 was even worse than g6.
Uri

[Aaron]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Aaron at 14 July 2000 11:46:16:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: About anticomputer play geschrieben von: / posted by: Uri Blass at 13 July 2000 23:39:17:

Ng4 and f5 were the right moves.
The real mistakes of Junior were after it.
Kramnik say that g6 and Nxd2 were mistakes in chessbase site.
Amir Ban claimed that Kh8 was even worse than g6.
Uri

I know. The two moves, create a counter stonewall position, for black which is fine for black for humans who are comfortable with closed setups.

but if I were the programmer for the book, i would not have chosen this line ...Probably e6 was a error already (subjectively speaking..)
1 d4 d5 2 e3 Nf6 3 Bd3 Nc6! (Played by Fischer, I believe) is the easiest..4 f4 (otherwise 4...e5) 4 Nb4 etc
or
1 d4 d5 2 e3 Nf6 3 Bd3 c5 4 c3 Nc6 5 f4 Bb4 6 Nf3 e6 7 0-0 Be7 8 h3 now Bxf3 or
8..Bxf5 would be good for black..

The funny thing is the moves Ng4 , f5 were found by Yace through calculation..Similar Fritz, and other winboard engines like the play that line..as well..(when book is off)
So was junior playing those moves from book? My guess is it was already out of book..Which is very poor book choice on the part of the programmers


Yes.. I read that. Kh8 looks pointless..
As for g6, i remember reading that g6 blunts the effectiveness of the bishop on d3..But usually, g6 isn't played when black has already played f5...(the g6 pawn is now really weak supported only by the h7 pawn)

[Uri Blass]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Uri Blass at 14 July 2000 13:07:39:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: About anticomputer play geschrieben von: / posted by: Aaron at 14 July 2000 11:46:16:

Ng4 and f5 were the right moves.
The real mistakes of Junior were after it.

I know. The two moves, create a counter stonewall position, for black which is fine for black for humans who are comfortable with closed setups.

but if I were the programmer for the book, i would not have chosen this line ...Probably e6 was a error already (subjectively speaking..)
1 d4 d5 2 e3 Nf6 3 Bd3 Nc6! (Played by Fischer, I believe) is the easiest..4 f4 (otherwise 4...e5) 4 Nb4 etc
or
1 d4 d5 2 e3 Nf6 3 Bd3 c5 4 c3 Nc6 5 f4 Bb4 6 Nf3 e6 7 0-0 Be7 8 h3 now Bxf3 or
8..Bxf5 would be good for black..

The funny thing is the moves Ng4 , f5 were found by Yace through calculation..Similar Fritz, and other winboard engines like the play that line..as well..(when book is off)
So was junior playing those moves from book? My guess is it was already out of book..Which is very poor book choice on the part of the programmers

I think that improving the engine is more important than improving the book.
I also disagree that hardware does not help because Junior saw few moves after Kh8 that it is in big trouble.
I believe that better hardware could help Junior to avoid part of the mistakes in the game.
Amir ban also said that Qe8 was a mistake and was played too fast and maybe Kg7 could give black chances.
Uri

[Han]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Han at 15 July 2000 13:06:23:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: Stonewall System is rock solid, my favourite! geschrieben von: / posted by: Aaron at 13 July 2000 19:14:11:

This means that computers have to just respect the stonewall:-)
Anyway, it is good against humans too! I have used it in tournaments will >tremendous results, even strong players don't know what hit them! Anti->computer & human => anti-chess system!

Yes. I used to as well..But there must be a reason why GMs don't use it against GMs..
BTW you are Singaporean right? By strong players..who do you mean?

What is BTW?
And the strong players are about 1900-2200.
Where are you from?
Please come to my pages and sign my guestbook!
Thanx in advance.
Best Wishes
Han

[Dann Corbit]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Dann Corbit at 16 July 2000 06:40:28:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Stonewall System is rock solid, my favourite! geschrieben von: / posted by: Han at 13 July 2000 16:43:17:

It's kinda amusing to see how Junior got beaten by the stonewall attack..It's such a well known anti-computer play position, it surprising that a commerical program is not prepared for it..
Anyway, it's quite interesting to note that Yace plays almost exactly the same moves as Junior on my much slower computer..Including the Ng4 , 15..f5 move ..
Hmm..I suppose, it doesn't matter how fast your computer is..

This means that computers have to just respect the stonewall:-)
Anyway, it is good against humans too! I have used it in tournaments will tremendous results, even strong players don't know what hit them! Anti-computer & human => anti-chess system!

Stonewall is a boring draw grinder. In my Elite ChessAssistant database of recent chess games involving good players. it resulted in over 60% draws.
I absolutely hate it. But it is a good choice to play against a computer.
P-U
YMMV

My FTP site