Geschrieben von: / Posted by: WYx at 25 May 2000 14:27:58:
Hi
to me astonishment, about crux was big dispute.
crux uses thread *win32* for pondering!
this thread runs side by side with process.
but with easy mode of Winboard this thread remain in memory, and cpu usage same.
crux not use results of thinking in easy mode !
if establish a claim to removing this thread, please, write me, and i rewrite the code.
it was satisfying?
regards
WYx
Winboard Forum
Discussions (not only) about Xboard/Winboard, Computer Chess and Chess Programming
...crux and pondering!...from Author
11 posts
• Page 1 of 1
Re: ...crux and pondering!...from Author
by Tony Worsman » 25 May 2000, 15:15
Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Tony Worsman at 25 May 2000 16:15:54:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: ...crux and pondering!...from Author geschrieben von: / posted by: WYx at 25 May 2000 14:27:58:
Thanks for answer to my question, Crux is an interesting program, and I notice you
work very often on releasing new Crux.
Not really big dispute, Just question why Crux use 50% cpu when other engine
think?
This is Crux turn to think
Process Pane
ID Process % CPU
+ Idle 0.40%
+ KERNEL32.DLL 0.05%
+ MSGSRV32.EXE 0.15%
+ MPREXE.EXE
+ mmtask.tsk
+ EXPLORER.EXE 0.30%
+ SYSTRAY.EXE
+ WINBOARD.EXE 0.20%
+ CRUX_17R.EXE 97.80%
+ AMYAN_11.EXE
+ TASKINFO.EXE 1.10%
+ VxD NTKERN
And this is Amyans turn to think:-
Process Pane
ID Process % CPU
+ Idle 0.30%
+ KERNEL32.DLL 0.15%
+ MSGSRV32.EXE 0.15%
+ MPREXE.EXE
+ mmtask.tsk
+ EXPLORER.EXE 0.30%
+ SYSTRAY.EXE
+ WINBOARD.EXE 0.35%
+ CRUX_17R.EXE 48.35%
+ AMYAN_11.EXE 48.80%
+ TASKINFO.EXE 1.60%
+ VxD NTKERN
From your answer I understand Crux still ponders when ponder = off,
but does not use the results of pondering. is this correct?
The problem with this is it gives unfair advantage to Crux in comp - comp
match, when playing Crux, the nps of engines are 50% less playing Crux than when
playing other engines!
Thanks for your input
Tony
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: ...crux and pondering!...from Author geschrieben von: / posted by: WYx at 25 May 2000 14:27:58:
Hi WYx,Hi
to me astonishment, about crux was big dispute.
crux uses thread *win32* for pondering!
this thread runs side by side with process.
but with easy mode of Winboard this thread remain in memory, and cpu usage same.
crux not use results of thinking in easy mode !
if establish a claim to removing this thread, please, write me, and i rewrite the code.
it was satisfying?
regards
WYx
Thanks for answer to my question, Crux is an interesting program, and I notice you
work very often on releasing new Crux.
Not really big dispute, Just question why Crux use 50% cpu when other engine
think?
This is Crux turn to think
Process Pane
ID Process % CPU
+ Idle 0.40%
+ KERNEL32.DLL 0.05%
+ MSGSRV32.EXE 0.15%
+ MPREXE.EXE
+ mmtask.tsk
+ EXPLORER.EXE 0.30%
+ SYSTRAY.EXE
+ WINBOARD.EXE 0.20%
+ CRUX_17R.EXE 97.80%
+ AMYAN_11.EXE
+ TASKINFO.EXE 1.10%
+ VxD NTKERN
And this is Amyans turn to think:-
Process Pane
ID Process % CPU
+ Idle 0.30%
+ KERNEL32.DLL 0.15%
+ MSGSRV32.EXE 0.15%
+ MPREXE.EXE
+ mmtask.tsk
+ EXPLORER.EXE 0.30%
+ SYSTRAY.EXE
+ WINBOARD.EXE 0.35%
+ CRUX_17R.EXE 48.35%
+ AMYAN_11.EXE 48.80%
+ TASKINFO.EXE 1.60%
+ VxD NTKERN
From your answer I understand Crux still ponders when ponder = off,
but does not use the results of pondering. is this correct?
The problem with this is it gives unfair advantage to Crux in comp - comp
match, when playing Crux, the nps of engines are 50% less playing Crux than when
playing other engines!
Thanks for your input
Tony
- Tony Worsman
Re: ...crux and pondering!...from Author
by Dann Corbit » 25 May 2000, 19:39
Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Dann Corbit at 25 May 2000 20:39:11:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: ...crux and pondering!...from Author geschrieben von: / posted by: WYx at 25 May 2000 14:27:58:
Not only that, but if your search thread is still buzzing away doing calculations, it is placing entries in your hash table which will speed up subsequent computations.
In other words, your program does not operate correctly with ponder set to off. Only with ponder on.
My FTP site
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: ...crux and pondering!...from Author geschrieben von: / posted by: WYx at 25 May 2000 14:27:58:
There is a problem with that approach. Your program gets 100% of the CPU during your turn. Your opponent gets 50% of the CPU during his turn. It is the same as cutting the opponent's time in half, while you keep the full time.Hi
to me astonishment, about crux was big dispute.
crux uses thread *win32* for pondering!
this thread runs side by side with process.
but with easy mode of Winboard this thread remain in memory, and cpu usage same.
crux not use results of thinking in easy mode !
if establish a claim to removing this thread, please, write me, and i rewrite the code.
it was satisfying?
Not only that, but if your search thread is still buzzing away doing calculations, it is placing entries in your hash table which will speed up subsequent computations.
In other words, your program does not operate correctly with ponder set to off. Only with ponder on.
My FTP site
- Dann Corbit
Re: ...crux and pondering!...from Author
by A8A (Mi final message) » 25 May 2000, 20:04
Geschrieben von: / Posted by: A8A (Mi final message) at 25 May 2000 21:04:23:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ...crux and pondering!...from Author geschrieben von: / posted by: Tony Worsman at 25 May 2000 16:15:54:
WYx explained clearly
the real cause of the Crux activity during the opponent time.
So, you say it's not reliable
the explanation or it's uncertain for Mogens Larsen, I cannot do anything
else. I was only trying to help you. Also, this kind of observations should
be sent directly to the Author Engine. I think this is the most secure
way to clarify this kind of problems.
Really, I don't care about
this condition because I always test the programs in two differents PCs.
How do I do it? Well, I use the protocol Autoplayer232. Rémi Coulom,
The Crazy Bishop Author, has been developing an interesting Winboard Autoplayer232
Protocol by years. I have only tested Zchess, Crux, LGoliath, LambChop
and The Crazy Bishop with this protocol, because of being my favorite Winboard
Engines.
I could also argue the shared
memory resources for two chess programs in the same PC can attempt into
the real power of each program, since it must be reduced the hastables
dimensions for each program.
On the other hand, my tests
aren't oriented to get statistics about the results of matches between
the engines. My tests are oriented to the game style exhaustive analyzis
of these programs, as well as its strengths and weaknesses through the
all phases of the chess game. This, of course, involves the
search of the possible causes by which a program selects a move during
a game. Really, it's a hard hobby, but I like to do it.
I continue thinking
the most respectful feedback for the Authors is to send them directly all
the remarks and observations that we can have. Why do I think by
this way? Because I consider that it's a great gift to have available so
many free programs to our disposition. For this reason, I affirm the best
gift we could give to all these Authors, who offer their creations freely
to us, is to send ours feedbacks directly.
I don't escape to have fallen
in this situation of publishing my observations during the last days, which
has brought me some misunderstandings . In order to avoid these kinds of
controversies in the future, I won't publish again any response,
observation, or notice about any program. I will continue sending
my reports directly to the Authors of these wonderful creatures.
What it is certain, I am restricted with the above mentioned Winboard Engines.
Before saying good bye, I
want to express my complete admiration to: Frank Quisinsky and his great
web site - it's mandatory for me the daily consulting of this great site
-, Dann Corbit because of his excellent work in adapting many of the engines,
to Volker Pittlik for this great Forum, and, mainly, to the Authors of
the programs by offering us these wonderful creatures.
Consequently, I won't respond
anything else about this topic.
Best Regards, A8A.
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ...crux and pondering!...from Author geschrieben von: / posted by: Tony Worsman at 25 May 2000 16:15:54:
WYx explained clearly
the real cause of the Crux activity during the opponent time.
So, you say it's not reliable
the explanation or it's uncertain for Mogens Larsen, I cannot do anything
else. I was only trying to help you. Also, this kind of observations should
be sent directly to the Author Engine. I think this is the most secure
way to clarify this kind of problems.
Really, I don't care about
this condition because I always test the programs in two differents PCs.
How do I do it? Well, I use the protocol Autoplayer232. Rémi Coulom,
The Crazy Bishop Author, has been developing an interesting Winboard Autoplayer232
Protocol by years. I have only tested Zchess, Crux, LGoliath, LambChop
and The Crazy Bishop with this protocol, because of being my favorite Winboard
Engines.
I could also argue the shared
memory resources for two chess programs in the same PC can attempt into
the real power of each program, since it must be reduced the hastables
dimensions for each program.
On the other hand, my tests
aren't oriented to get statistics about the results of matches between
the engines. My tests are oriented to the game style exhaustive analyzis
of these programs, as well as its strengths and weaknesses through the
all phases of the chess game. This, of course, involves the
search of the possible causes by which a program selects a move during
a game. Really, it's a hard hobby, but I like to do it.
I continue thinking
the most respectful feedback for the Authors is to send them directly all
the remarks and observations that we can have. Why do I think by
this way? Because I consider that it's a great gift to have available so
many free programs to our disposition. For this reason, I affirm the best
gift we could give to all these Authors, who offer their creations freely
to us, is to send ours feedbacks directly.
I don't escape to have fallen
in this situation of publishing my observations during the last days, which
has brought me some misunderstandings . In order to avoid these kinds of
controversies in the future, I won't publish again any response,
observation, or notice about any program. I will continue sending
my reports directly to the Authors of these wonderful creatures.
What it is certain, I am restricted with the above mentioned Winboard Engines.
Before saying good bye, I
want to express my complete admiration to: Frank Quisinsky and his great
web site - it's mandatory for me the daily consulting of this great site
-, Dann Corbit because of his excellent work in adapting many of the engines,
to Volker Pittlik for this great Forum, and, mainly, to the Authors of
the programs by offering us these wonderful creatures.
Consequently, I won't respond
anything else about this topic.
Best Regards, A8A.
- A8A (Mi final message)
Was that really necessary?
by Mogens Larsen » 25 May 2000, 20:33
Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Mogens Larsen at 25 May 2000 21:33:37:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ...crux and pondering!...from Author geschrieben von: / posted by: A8A (Mi final message) at 25 May 2000 21:04:23:
Did you really have to mail the same response thrice to make your point?
Obviously, it's not possible to use Crux fairly on one computer unless you use ponder on. This is the clear conclusion drawn from the information received through WYx. It's voluntary to test the game anyway you please and I have no problem with that. But it would not be fair to other programs, if I pretended that there are no problems with Crux concerning the kind of tournaments I conduct. That's the reason for my query. It's nothing personal, but merely an attempt to clarify how Crux operates under the conditions I use. Since this is already achieved through the participation of the author himself. I see no reason to continue this discussion as the facts are clear.
Best wishes...
Mogens
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ...crux and pondering!...from Author geschrieben von: / posted by: A8A (Mi final message) at 25 May 2000 21:04:23:
Did you really have to mail the same response thrice to make your point?
Obviously, it's not possible to use Crux fairly on one computer unless you use ponder on. This is the clear conclusion drawn from the information received through WYx. It's voluntary to test the game anyway you please and I have no problem with that. But it would not be fair to other programs, if I pretended that there are no problems with Crux concerning the kind of tournaments I conduct. That's the reason for my query. It's nothing personal, but merely an attempt to clarify how Crux operates under the conditions I use. Since this is already achieved through the participation of the author himself. I see no reason to continue this discussion as the facts are clear.
Best wishes...
Mogens
- Mogens Larsen
Re: ...crux and pondering!...from Author
by Tony Worsman » 26 May 2000, 02:24
Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Tony Worsman at 26 May 2000 03:24:24:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ...crux and pondering!...from Author geschrieben von: / posted by: A8A (Mi final message) at 25 May 2000 21:04:23:
Hi ABA
Thanks for the large font, but really it is not needed
because my eye-sight is very good.
I Find your reply remarkable none the less, are you really suggesting
that discussions about winboard engines and the way they behave are not correct ?
The whole idea of a forum is to ask questions and discuss topics, not only
for ones benefit, but for everyone who is interested in that
information.
My original question was is it possible to turn ponder off in
Crux, ie what commands are needed etc: It is _far_ _easier_ for the
author of an engine to answer a question on a forum than reply
separately to 20 such enquiries _by_ _e-mail_
BTW anyone who cares to visit the crux forum will see you dont practice what you preach 8+()
OK, I know its damn hot in Venezuala right now, cool down man and enjoy!
best regards
Tony
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ...crux and pondering!...from Author geschrieben von: / posted by: A8A (Mi final message) at 25 May 2000 21:04:23:
Hi ABA
Thanks for the large font, but really it is not needed
because my eye-sight is very good.
I Find your reply remarkable none the less, are you really suggesting
that discussions about winboard engines and the way they behave are not correct ?
The whole idea of a forum is to ask questions and discuss topics, not only
for ones benefit, but for everyone who is interested in that
information.
My original question was is it possible to turn ponder off in
Crux, ie what commands are needed etc: It is _far_ _easier_ for the
author of an engine to answer a question on a forum than reply
separately to 20 such enquiries _by_ _e-mail_
BTW anyone who cares to visit the crux forum will see you dont practice what you preach 8+()
OK, I know its damn hot in Venezuala right now, cool down man and enjoy!
best regards
Tony
- Tony Worsman
... to Tony
by ... » 26 May 2000, 05:13
Geschrieben von: / Posted by: ... at 26 May 2000 06:13:27:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ...crux and pondering!...from Author geschrieben von: / posted by: Tony Worsman at 26 May 2000 03:24:24:
Because of the look of your last response has taken a personal direction, I must respond in the same way.
Correction, my nickname is A8A not ABA. It seemed you have taken the letter B instead of the number 8.
Don't mention it, but... I will have to use the same size because you haven't read my nickname correctly.
Again, you are inferring words that I haven't said neither I have given to understand.
I think it is the only thing which I agree totally with you. If you read my last message in detail, you will see what I think about this Forum. Just in case, I remind you textually what I said in my final paragraph.
Before saying good bye, I want to express my complete admiration to: Frank Quisinsky and his great web site - it's mandatory for me the daily consulting of this great site -, Dann Corbit because of his excellent work in adapting many of the engines, to Volker Pittlik for this great Forum, and, mainly, to the Authors of the programs by offering us these wonderful creatures.
Not only I am very clear about your original question, but also I remember very well which my answer was to try to help you.
The problem begins when both the messages chains and the answers become endless: the best way is to contact the program Author, with the purpose of solving any doubt. Do you find this so not very reasonable?
About responding twenty emails for separate, neither it is such an overwhelming argument as it seems.
There are two feasible ways for this trivial problem: the first alternative is to create a mail list with all the recipients; the second alternative, and it is here where the Forum plays an essential rol, is the Author publishes a message explaining the possible solution of the problem.
In fact, Dann Corbit, as always, gave an excellent technical explanation of the explanatory exposed by WYx. It is very strange to see Dann Corbit in such polemics, since, besides, having a great technical knowledge, he makes a great common sense to avoid them. Dann Corbit is very punctual in his explanations.
This is another unacceptable asseveration on your behalf, more than everything for the wrapped up irony.
I have to mention another paragraph of my last message again:
I don't escape to have fallen in this situation of publishing my observations during the last days, which has brought me some misunderstandings. In order to avoid these kinds of controversies in the future, I won't publish again any response, observation, or notice about any program. I will continue sending my reports directly to the Authors of these wonderful creatures...
I have recognized my fail for not practicing my "sermon" as you called it, but neither it is certain that I usually do it, since it has been during the last week. For the matter concerning to me, this is another false inference on your behalf
Another false asseveration, since the heat of Venezuela is only excessive in some areas. For example, in the Venezuelan plains. But in the beach, this situation doesn't have any importance. In the place where I live, the weather is pretty acceptable.
Please, the correct name of my native country is Venezuela.
I can enjoy of this wonderful sun during the whole year, so let us agree this way a truce to this confrontation and allow me to retire calmly, without slanders and with authentic arguments.
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ...crux and pondering!...from Author geschrieben von: / posted by: Tony Worsman at 26 May 2000 03:24:24:
Hi ABA
Thanks for the large font, but really it is not needed
because my eye-sight is very good.
I Find your reply remarkable none the less, are you really suggesting
that discussions about winboard engines and the way they behave are not correct ?
The whole idea of a forum is to ask questions and discuss topics, not only
for ones benefit, but for everyone who is interested in that
information.
My original question was is it possible to turn ponder off in
Crux, ie what commands are needed etc: It is _far_ _easier_ for the
author of an engine to answer a question on a forum than reply
separately to 20 such enquiries _by_ _e-mail_
BTW anyone who cares to visit the crux forum will see you dont practice what you preach 8+()
OK, I know its damn hot in Venezuala right now, cool down man and enjoy!
best regards
Tony
Hi ABA
Thanks for the large font, but really it is not needed because my eye-sight is very good.
I Find your reply remarkable none the less, are you really suggesting that discussions about winboard engines and the way they behave are not correct ?
The whole idea of a forum is to ask questions and discuss topics, not only for ones benefit, but for everyone who is interested in that information.
My original question was is it possible to turn ponder off in Crux, ie what commands are needed etc: It is _far_ _easier_ for the author of an engine to answer a question on a forum than reply separately to 20 such enquiries _by_ _e-mail_
BTW anyone who cares to visit the crux forum will see you dont practice what you preach 8+()
OK, I know its damn hot in Venezuala right now, cool down man and enjoy!
best regards
Tony
Because of the look of your last response has taken a personal direction, I must respond in the same way.
Correction, my nickname is A8A not ABA. It seemed you have taken the letter B instead of the number 8.
Don't mention it, but... I will have to use the same size because you haven't read my nickname correctly.
Again, you are inferring words that I haven't said neither I have given to understand.
I think it is the only thing which I agree totally with you. If you read my last message in detail, you will see what I think about this Forum. Just in case, I remind you textually what I said in my final paragraph.
Before saying good bye, I want to express my complete admiration to: Frank Quisinsky and his great web site - it's mandatory for me the daily consulting of this great site -, Dann Corbit because of his excellent work in adapting many of the engines, to Volker Pittlik for this great Forum, and, mainly, to the Authors of the programs by offering us these wonderful creatures.
Not only I am very clear about your original question, but also I remember very well which my answer was to try to help you.
The problem begins when both the messages chains and the answers become endless: the best way is to contact the program Author, with the purpose of solving any doubt. Do you find this so not very reasonable?
About responding twenty emails for separate, neither it is such an overwhelming argument as it seems.
There are two feasible ways for this trivial problem: the first alternative is to create a mail list with all the recipients; the second alternative, and it is here where the Forum plays an essential rol, is the Author publishes a message explaining the possible solution of the problem.
In fact, Dann Corbit, as always, gave an excellent technical explanation of the explanatory exposed by WYx. It is very strange to see Dann Corbit in such polemics, since, besides, having a great technical knowledge, he makes a great common sense to avoid them. Dann Corbit is very punctual in his explanations.
This is another unacceptable asseveration on your behalf, more than everything for the wrapped up irony.
I have to mention another paragraph of my last message again:
I don't escape to have fallen in this situation of publishing my observations during the last days, which has brought me some misunderstandings. In order to avoid these kinds of controversies in the future, I won't publish again any response, observation, or notice about any program. I will continue sending my reports directly to the Authors of these wonderful creatures...
I have recognized my fail for not practicing my "sermon" as you called it, but neither it is certain that I usually do it, since it has been during the last week. For the matter concerning to me, this is another false inference on your behalf
Another false asseveration, since the heat of Venezuela is only excessive in some areas. For example, in the Venezuelan plains. But in the beach, this situation doesn't have any importance. In the place where I live, the weather is pretty acceptable.
Please, the correct name of my native country is Venezuela.
I can enjoy of this wonderful sun during the whole year, so let us agree this way a truce to this confrontation and allow me to retire calmly, without slanders and with authentic arguments.
- ...
Re: ... to Tony
by Tony Worsman » 26 May 2000, 15:04
Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Tony Worsman at 26 May 2000 16:04:23:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: ... to Tony geschrieben von: / posted by: ... at 26 May 2000 06:13:27:
Hi
If the only way you can make a point on this forum is by SHOUTING,
in multiple posts, finding errors in my spelling etc, so be it.
However, excuse me,
The issue about Crux was made clear thanks
to two posts by the author, helpful advice from Mogens (as allways)
and a lucid post from Dann Corbit.
At the moment
I'm running a tournament between the weaker engines, such as Crux, Cilian,
Amyan, Freyr etc, using rather long time controls (4 hours a game at the
moment) in order to discover which engines are weak because of poor evaluations
and which engines appear weak because they are not deep searchers under shorter
time controls, yet have real good evaluations when allowed time to blossom.
While running Crux I noticed a sharp drop in the nps displayed by Amyan and
that was the reason for my enquiry on this Forum.
It never was an attack of Crux or the author. (see the readme file of Crux and you will
see I was a beta tester for this program) So I fully understand how input
about a program is valuable to the author ie bugs etc.
However the same applies that authors that release their engines for
no cost, should _not_ have to spend their time answering constant e-mails
such as "how do i run this under winboard etc"
JMHO
regards
Tony.
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: ... to Tony geschrieben von: / posted by: ... at 26 May 2000 06:13:27:
Hi
If the only way you can make a point on this forum is by SHOUTING,
in multiple posts, finding errors in my spelling etc, so be it.
However, excuse me,
The issue about Crux was made clear thanks
to two posts by the author, helpful advice from Mogens (as allways)
and a lucid post from Dann Corbit.
At the moment
I'm running a tournament between the weaker engines, such as Crux, Cilian,
Amyan, Freyr etc, using rather long time controls (4 hours a game at the
moment) in order to discover which engines are weak because of poor evaluations
and which engines appear weak because they are not deep searchers under shorter
time controls, yet have real good evaluations when allowed time to blossom.
While running Crux I noticed a sharp drop in the nps displayed by Amyan and
that was the reason for my enquiry on this Forum.
It never was an attack of Crux or the author. (see the readme file of Crux and you will
see I was a beta tester for this program) So I fully understand how input
about a program is valuable to the author ie bugs etc.
However the same applies that authors that release their engines for
no cost, should _not_ have to spend their time answering constant e-mails
such as "how do i run this under winboard etc"
JMHO
regards
Tony.
- Tony Worsman
Re: ... to Tony
by WYx » 26 May 2000, 16:16
Geschrieben von: / Posted by: WYx at 26 May 2000 17:16:58:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ... to Tony geschrieben von: / posted by: Tony Worsman at 26 May 2000 16:04:23:
use crux01.8R...
regards
WYx
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ... to Tony geschrieben von: / posted by: Tony Worsman at 26 May 2000 16:04:23:
use crux01.8R...
regards
WYx
- WYx
...
by ... again Tony » 26 May 2000, 18:11
Geschrieben von: / Posted by: ... again Tony at 26 May 2000 19:11:54:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ... to Tony geschrieben von: / posted by: Tony Worsman at 26 May 2000 16:04:23:
It seems again you don't do a good reading of my messages.
I do not have any problem in this sense. Until the analysis you performed with the tool seemed to me quite interesting. The problem is, mainly, when these reports contain value judgments: words like non reliable or uncertainty generate this kind of confrontations.
Not even, I have never refused any Dann Corbit's message , since he always gets the right point in his explanations. Of any way, I am not going to spend more time in explaining what I have already said very clearly in this sense. Concerning to Mogens Larsen, I have neither any problem with him, whose knowledge about Winboard I respect so much, but I don't like some of his emitted value judgments. This is the real matter in this sense.
This kind of observations seems to me totally valid, and they looks in its contents like your initial messages. The situation appears very clear described, as well as a good argued initial diagnosis.
I have not affirmed either at any moment that you have attacked Crux or its Author, I only differ from the way as the messages were said and this non sense controversy that was generated.
You have your position concerning to this, but I also have mine. I am not either going to repeat again my arguments that were already explained previously. If you did not read them, I cannot do anything else.
I don't have any problem in which we have different points of view: That turns the testing process into a very productive activity for the Authors' programs. What I cannot accept, when you said those light asseverations, without real foundations and, also, that ironic contents of badly pleasure.
That's all again.
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ... to Tony geschrieben von: / posted by: Tony Worsman at 26 May 2000 16:04:23:
Once again, this is another as endeble asseveration as false, and similar to the most posted asseverations in your last messages. The hard and ironic tone that you assumed in your penultimate message, it seemed to me too outside and unacceptable. That is the real cause of my last answer. If you don't read in detail my messages and launch such as sarcasms (example: the good vision), I will have to respond in the same way, to try the understanding on your behalf.Hi
If the only way you can make a point on this forum is by SHOUTING,
in multiple posts, finding errors in my spelling etc, so be it.
However, excuse me,
The issue about Crux was made clear thanks
to two posts by the author, helpful advice from Mogens (as allways)
and a lucid post from Dann Corbit.
At the moment
I'm running a tournament between the weaker engines, such as Crux, Cilian,
Amyan, Freyr etc, using rather long time controls (4 hours a game at the
moment) in order to discover which engines are weak because of poor evaluations
and which engines appear weak because they are not deep searchers under shorter
time controls, yet have real good evaluations when allowed time to blossom.
While running Crux I noticed a sharp drop in the nps displayed by Amyan and
that was the reason for my enquiry on this Forum.
It never was an attack of Crux or the author. (see the readme file of Crux and you will
see I was a beta tester for this program) So I fully understand how input
about a program is valuable to the author ie bugs etc.
However the same applies that authors that release their engines for
no cost, should _not_ have to spend their time answering constant e-mails
such as "how do i run this under winboard etc"
JMHO
regards
Tony.
It seems again you don't do a good reading of my messages.
I do not have any problem in this sense. Until the analysis you performed with the tool seemed to me quite interesting. The problem is, mainly, when these reports contain value judgments: words like non reliable or uncertainty generate this kind of confrontations.
Not even, I have never refused any Dann Corbit's message , since he always gets the right point in his explanations. Of any way, I am not going to spend more time in explaining what I have already said very clearly in this sense. Concerning to Mogens Larsen, I have neither any problem with him, whose knowledge about Winboard I respect so much, but I don't like some of his emitted value judgments. This is the real matter in this sense.
This kind of observations seems to me totally valid, and they looks in its contents like your initial messages. The situation appears very clear described, as well as a good argued initial diagnosis.
I have not affirmed either at any moment that you have attacked Crux or its Author, I only differ from the way as the messages were said and this non sense controversy that was generated.
You have your position concerning to this, but I also have mine. I am not either going to repeat again my arguments that were already explained previously. If you did not read them, I cannot do anything else.
I don't have any problem in which we have different points of view: That turns the testing process into a very productive activity for the Authors' programs. What I cannot accept, when you said those light asseverations, without real foundations and, also, that ironic contents of badly pleasure.
That's all again.
- ... again Tony
Re: ... to Tony
by Tony Worsman » 27 May 2000, 21:24
Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Tony Worsman at 27 May 2000 22:24:03:
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ... to Tony geschrieben von: / posted by: WYx at 26 May 2000 17:16:58:
Downloaded Crux 1.8 Yesterday,
Everything is working just fine........Thanks.
Regards
Tony.
Als Antwort auf: / As an answer to: Re: ... to Tony geschrieben von: / posted by: WYx at 26 May 2000 17:16:58:
Hi WYx,use crux01.8R...
regards
WYx
Downloaded Crux 1.8 Yesterday,
Everything is working just fine........Thanks.
Regards
Tony.
- Tony Worsman
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