Battle of the Crowns -- pairings and contests (Looking for v

[Dann Corbit]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Dann Corbit at 25 February 2000 22:08:44:
I would like suggestions for preliminary rules. I do have one suggestion about program failures.
If within the first ten moves and the program that did not fail is within one pawn of the failing program, there is a single restart. A second failure results in forfeit of the game. If after the first ten moves *or* if the evaluation favors the program that did not fail by one pawn or more, the failing program has forfeited that game. If both programs fail, there is a restart of the game.
In each division, all programs are seeded equally. Round-robin tournaments do not need seeding.
Four Crowns Contest:
------------
Entry id 1: AnMon
Entry id 2: Comet
Entry id 3: Crafty
Entry id 4: Gromit
Entry id 5: Little Goliath 2K
Entry id 6: Phalanx
Entry id 7: SOS
Entry id 8: Lamb Chop
Entry id 9: The Crazy Bishop
Pairings:

Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
round \......................................................
1: - 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
2: 6 - 9 8 7 1 5 4 3
3: 2 1 - 9 8 7 6 5 4
4: 7 3 2 - 9 8 1 6 5
5: 3 4 1 2 - 9 8 7 6
6: 8 5 4 3 2 - 9 1 7
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 - 9 8
8: 9 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 1
9: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2 X

======================================================================================

-------------
Entry id 1: Amy
Entry id 2: Ant
Entry id 3: Arasan
Entry id 4: Der Bringer
Entry id 5: Dragon
Entry id 6: Exchess
Entry id 7: Fortress
Entry id 8: GnuChess
Entry id 9: InmiChess
Entry id 10: La Dame Blanche
Entry id 11: SSEChess
Entry id 12: Techno
Entry id 13: ZChess
Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
round \..............................................................................
1: - 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
2: 8 - 13 12 11 10 9 1 7 6 5 4 3
3: 2 1 - 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4
4: 9 3 2 - 13 12 11 10 1 8 7 6 5
5: 3 4 1 2 - 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6
6: 10 5 4 3 2 - 13 12 11 1 9 8 7
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 - 13 12 11 10 9 8
8: 11 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 13 12 1 10 9
9: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2 - 13 12 11 10
10: 12 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 13 1 11
11: 6 10 9 8 7 1 5 4 3 2 - 13 12
12: 13 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 1
13: 7 12 11 10 9 8 1 6 5 4 3 2 -
======================================================================================
Two Crowns Contest:
-----------
Entry id 1: Amyan
Entry id 2: Averno
Entry id 3: Cilian
Entry id 4: Colchess
Entry id 5: DChess
Entry id 6: Faile
Entry id 7: Freyr
Entry id 8: Monik
Entry id 9: New Rival
Entry id 10: OliThink
Entry id 11: SnailChess
Entry id 12: Tristram

Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
round \........................................................................
1: 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
2: 7 12 11 10 9 8 1 6 5 4 3 2
3: 2 1 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3
4: 8 3 2 12 11 10 9 1 7 6 5 4
5: 3 4 1 2 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5
6: 9 5 4 3 2 12 11 10 1 8 7 6
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 12 11 10 9 8 7
8: 10 7 6 5 4 3 2 12 11 1 9 8
9: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2 12 11 10 9
10: 11 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 12 1 10
11: 6 10 9 8 7 1 5 4 3 2 12 11

======================================================================================
One Crown (or unknown crowns) Contest:
--------------------------------------
Entry id 1: MFChess
Entry id 2: Noonian
Entry id 3: Pierre
Entry id 4: Raffaela
Entry id 5: Shaki
Entry id 6: TSCP
Entry id 7: Larsen VB
Entry id 8: Crux

Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
round \................................................
1: 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
2: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2
3: 2 1 8 7 6 5 4 3
4: 6 3 2 8 7 1 5 4
5: 3 4 1 2 8 7 6 5
6: 7 5 4 3 2 8 1 6
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 8 7
======================================================================================


My FTP site

[Mogens Larsen]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Mogens Larsen at 25 February 2000 23:12:54:
Als Antwort auf:/As an answer to: Battle of the Crowns -- pairings and contests (Looking for volunteers) geschrieben von:/posted by: Dann Corbit at 25 February 2000 22:08:44:
I wouldn't mind participating as long as we can agree on the gameformat and engine specifications. That is the number of games, moves per minutes or minutes+seconds/game and the size of hashtables. I don't believe that tablebases are an issue. The strong programs use compressed Nalimov and medium-weak engines mostly don't use tablebases. When I do tournaments it's usually 40/40' (approx. 2 hours per game), 16-20Mb hash and 3-4 piece tablebases. I believe that there should be at least ½ a minute per move to make the contest interesting.
Best wishes...
Mogens

[Dann Corbit]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Dann Corbit at 25 February 2000 23:29:08:
Als Antwort auf:/As an answer to: Re: Battle of the Crowns -- pairings and contests (Looking for volunteers) geschrieben von:/posted by: Mogens Larsen at 25 February 2000 23:12:54:

I wouldn't mind participating as long as we can agree on the gameformat and engine specifications.
That is the number of games,
moves per minutes or minutes+seconds/game and
the size of hashtables.
I don't believe that tablebases are an issue. The strong programs use compressed Nalimov and medium-weak engines mostly don't use tablebases. When I do tournaments it's usually 40/40' (approx. 2 hours per game), 16-20Mb hash and 3-4 piece tablebases. I believe that there should be at least ½ a minute per move to make the contest interesting.

4 games per pair times crosstable rounds. Each pairing (e.g. Crafty verses SOS) should play 4 games. Play starting as white then starting as black, then reverse machines and do it again. That will make things as fair as possible. The machines should be fairly evenly matched. In other words a 266 MHz PII verses a 300 MHz PII would be OK, but a 90 MHz P5 verses a 1GHz pushed Athlon would be right out. Since the programs are fairly close in ability, the stronger machine would skew things too far.
I suggest that we normalize on a PII 300 MHz machine. Slower or faster machines could be used, and we would adjust time intervals accordingly. A 266 MHz PII would get (300/266) time increments and a 500 MHz PII would get (300/500) times as long to play. If someone wants to use something below a Pentium Pro class machine, we can run a crafty benchmark on that machine and normalize with that.
16 MB seems about right. I run a lot more than that, but I get a huge number of complaints when I compile a program with fixed sized hash for more than 32 megabytes.
You are a man after my own heart. If we can find enough volunteers to run at that slow of a time control, I would be absolutely thrilled.
I despise blitz. We might run a blitz match too, with the same pairings just so that there can be a second set of titles at stake and increase the odds of winning a title. But promotion to the next higher group will depend only on the slower time control matches.

[Volker Pittlik]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Volker Pittlik at 26 February 2000 08:28:33:
Als Antwort auf:/As an answer to: Battle of the Crowns -- pairings and contests (Looking for volunteers) geschrieben von:/posted by: Dann Corbit at 25 February 2000 22:08:44:

I would like suggestions for preliminary rules. I do have one suggestion about program failures.
If within the first ten moves and the program that did not fail is within one pawn of the failing program, there is a single restart. A second failure results in forfeit of the game. If after the first ten moves *or* if the evaluation favors the program that did not fail by one pawn or more, the failing program has forfeited that game. If both programs fail, there is a restart of the game.
In each division, all programs are seeded equally. Round-robin tournaments do not need seeding.
Four Crowns Contest:
------------
Entry id 1: AnMon
Entry id 2: Comet
Entry id 3: Crafty
Entry id 4: Gromit
Entry id 5: Little Goliath 2K
Entry id 6: Phalanx
Entry id 7: SOS
Entry id 8: Lamb Chop
Entry id 9: The Crazy Bishop
Pairings:
Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
round \......................................................
1: - 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
2: 6 - 9 8 7 1 5 4 3
3: 2 1 - 9 8 7 6 5 4
4: 7 3 2 - 9 8 1 6 5
5: 3 4 1 2 - 9 8 7 6
6: 8 5 4 3 2 - 9 1 7
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 - 9 8
8: 9 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 1
9: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2 X

======================================================================================

-------------
Entry id 1: Amy
Entry id 2: Ant
Entry id 3: Arasan
Entry id 4: Der Bringer
Entry id 5: Dragon
Entry id 6: Exchess
Entry id 7: Fortress
Entry id 8: GnuChess
Entry id 9: InmiChess
Entry id 10: La Dame Blanche
Entry id 11: SSEChess
Entry id 12: Techno
Entry id 13: ZChess
Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
round \..............................................................................
1: - 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
2: 8 - 13 12 11 10 9 1 7 6 5 4 3
3: 2 1 - 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4
4: 9 3 2 - 13 12 11 10 1 8 7 6 5
5: 3 4 1 2 - 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6
6: 10 5 4 3 2 - 13 12 11 1 9 8 7
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 - 13 12 11 10 9 8
8: 11 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 13 12 1 10 9
9: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2 - 13 12 11 10
10: 12 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 13 1 11
11: 6 10 9 8 7 1 5 4 3 2 - 13 12
12: 13 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 1
13: 7 12 11 10 9 8 1 6 5 4 3 2 -
======================================================================================
Two Crowns Contest:
-----------
Entry id 1: Amyan
Entry id 2: Averno
Entry id 3: Cilian
Entry id 4: Colchess
Entry id 5: DChess
Entry id 6: Faile
Entry id 7: Freyr
Entry id 8: Monik
Entry id 9: New Rival
Entry id 10: OliThink
Entry id 11: SnailChess
Entry id 12: Tristram

Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
round \........................................................................
1: 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
2: 7 12 11 10 9 8 1 6 5 4 3 2
3: 2 1 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3
4: 8 3 2 12 11 10 9 1 7 6 5 4
5: 3 4 1 2 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5
6: 9 5 4 3 2 12 11 10 1 8 7 6
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 12 11 10 9 8 7
8: 10 7 6 5 4 3 2 12 11 1 9 8
9: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2 12 11 10 9
10: 11 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 12 1 10
11: 6 10 9 8 7 1 5 4 3 2 12 11

======================================================================================
One Crown (or unknown crowns) Contest:
--------------------------------------
Entry id 1: MFChess
Entry id 2: Noonian
Entry id 3: Pierre
Entry id 4: Raffaela
Entry id 5: Shaki
Entry id 6: TSCP
Entry id 7: Larsen VB
Entry id 8: Crux

Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
round \................................................
1: 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
2: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2
3: 2 1 8 7 6 5 4 3
4: 6 3 2 8 7 1 5 4
5: 3 4 1 2 8 7 6 5
6: 7 5 4 3 2 8 1 6
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 8 7
======================================================================================

[Volker Pittlik]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Volker Pittlik at 26 February 2000 08:33:47:
Als Antwort auf:/As an answer to: Re: Battle of the Crowns -- pairings and contests (reformated) geschrieben von:/posted by: Volker Pittlik at 26 February 2000 08:28:33:
To use preformated text include the in the HTML < pre > tags.
Example:
< pre > (without spaces!)

Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
round \......................................................
1: - 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
2: 6 - 9 8 7 1 5 4 3
3: 2 1 - 9 8 7 6 5 4
4: 7 3 2 - 9 8 1 6 5
5: 3 4 1 2 - 9 8 7 6
6: 8 5 4 3 2 - 9 1 7
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 - 9 8
8: 9 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 1
9: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2 X

======================================================================================
< /pre > (without spaces!)

-------------
Entry id 1: Amy

[Colin Frayn]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Colin Frayn at 26 February 2000 12:13:22:
Als Antwort auf:/As an answer to: Re: Battle of the Crowns -- pairings and contests (Looking for volunteers) geschrieben von:/posted by: Dann Corbit at 25 February 2000 23:29:08:

4 games per pair times crosstable rounds. Each pairing (e.g. Crafty verses SOS) should play 4 games. Play starting as >white then starting as black, then reverse machines and do it again. That will make things as fair as possible. The >machines should be fairly evenly matched. In other words a 266 MHz PII verses a 300 MHz PII would be OK, but a >90 MHz P5 verses a 1GHz pushed Athlon would be right out. Since the programs are fairly close in ability, the >stronger machine would skew things too far.

I still reckon it would be so much easier to play the games on one machine. If you like longer games then perhaps we could just give out pairs of programs to different people and play it that way. In ColChess' division (2 crowns) there are 12 programs. That means 66 pairings if my maths serves correctly. Lets say each pairing plays 4 games, each lasting 2 hours. If we can get half a dozen people taking part, that is 11 pairings per person, therefore 88 hrs per person = 3 and a half days. Time goes down linearly with number of people, obviously.
That way we have no problems about processor speed, tablebases, etc.....
Oh, and that's a maximum time limit for the games, presuming that none of the matches end in early CM or resignation.
We could collect a list together of people willing to run matches, and go from there... I'm willing to help, but I can really only run Linux programs unless I reboot into Windows for an extended time. I'd rather not do that, but it's a possiblilty I suppose. If someone wants to officially organise this then we could just email them if we are willing to help, and say which programs we have installed.
I really don't think that running matches on separate computers is going to work.
...but I'm normally wrong about such things.
Cheers,
Col

ColChess Homepage

[Mogens Larsen]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Mogens Larsen at 26 February 2000 18:42:08:
Als Antwort auf:/As an answer to: Re: Battle of the Crowns -- pairings and contests (Looking for volunteers) geschrieben von:/posted by: Colin Frayn at 26 February 2000 12:13:22:

I still reckon it would be so much easier to play the games on one machine. If you like longer games then perhaps we could just give out pairs of programs to different people and play it that way. In ColChess' division (2 crowns) there are 12 programs. That means 66 pairings if my maths serves correctly. Lets say each pairing plays 4 games, each lasting 2 hours. If we can get half a dozen people taking part, that is 11 pairings per person, therefore 88 hrs per person = 3 and a half days. Time goes down linearly with number of people, obviously.
That way we have no problems about processor speed, tablebases, etc.....
Oh, and that's a maximum time limit for the games, presuming that none of the matches end in early CM or resignation.
We could collect a list together of people willing to run matches, and go from there... I'm willing to help, but I can really only run Linux programs unless I reboot into Windows for an extended time. I'd rather not do that, but it's a possiblilty I suppose. If someone wants to officially organise this then we could just email them if we are willing to help, and say which programs we have installed.
I really don't think that running matches on separate computers is going to work.
...but I'm normally wrong about such things.
Cheers,
Col

Your opinion got my vote, but I don't know if that's a good thing ).
Best wishes...
Mogens

[pete]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: pete at 27 February 2000 15:30:39:
Als Antwort auf:/As an answer to: Battle of the Crowns -- pairings and contests (Looking for volunteers) geschrieben von:/posted by: Dann Corbit at 25 February 2000 22:08:44:

I would like suggestions for preliminary rules. I do have one suggestion about program failures.
If within the first ten moves and the program that did not fail is within one pawn of the failing program, there is a single restart. A second failure results in forfeit of the game. If after the first ten moves *or* if the evaluation favors the program that did not fail by one pawn or more, the failing program has forfeited that game. If both programs fail, there is a restart of the game.
In each division, all programs are seeded equally. Round-robin tournaments do not need seeding.
Four Crowns Contest:
------------
Entry id 1: AnMon
Entry id 2: Comet
Entry id 3: Crafty
Entry id 4: Gromit
Entry id 5: Little Goliath 2K
Entry id 6: Phalanx
Entry id 7: SOS
Entry id 8: Lamb Chop
Entry id 9: The Crazy Bishop
Pairings:

Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
round \......................................................
1: - 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
2: 6 - 9 8 7 1 5 4 3
3: 2 1 - 9 8 7 6 5 4
4: 7 3 2 - 9 8 1 6 5
5: 3 4 1 2 - 9 8 7 6
6: 8 5 4 3 2 - 9 1 7
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 - 9 8
8: 9 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 1
9: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2 X

======================================================================================

-------------
Entry id 1: Amy
Entry id 2: Ant
Entry id 3: Arasan
Entry id 4: Der Bringer
Entry id 5: Dragon
Entry id 6: Exchess
Entry id 7: Fortress
Entry id 8: GnuChess
Entry id 9: InmiChess
Entry id 10: La Dame Blanche
Entry id 11: SSEChess
Entry id 12: Techno
Entry id 13: ZChess
Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
round \..............................................................................
1: - 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
2: 8 - 13 12 11 10 9 1 7 6 5 4 3
3: 2 1 - 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4
4: 9 3 2 - 13 12 11 10 1 8 7 6 5
5: 3 4 1 2 - 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6
6: 10 5 4 3 2 - 13 12 11 1 9 8 7
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 - 13 12 11 10 9 8
8: 11 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 13 12 1 10 9
9: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2 - 13 12 11 10
10: 12 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 13 1 11
11: 6 10 9 8 7 1 5 4 3 2 - 13 12
12: 13 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 - 1
13: 7 12 11 10 9 8 1 6 5 4 3 2 -
======================================================================================
Two Crowns Contest:
-----------
Entry id 1: Amyan
Entry id 2: Averno
Entry id 3: Cilian
Entry id 4: Colchess
Entry id 5: DChess
Entry id 6: Faile
Entry id 7: Freyr
Entry id 8: Monik
Entry id 9: New Rival
Entry id 10: OliThink
Entry id 11: SnailChess
Entry id 12: Tristram

Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
round \........................................................................
1: 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
2: 7 12 11 10 9 8 1 6 5 4 3 2
3: 2 1 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3
4: 8 3 2 12 11 10 9 1 7 6 5 4
5: 3 4 1 2 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5
6: 9 5 4 3 2 12 11 10 1 8 7 6
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 12 11 10 9 8 7
8: 10 7 6 5 4 3 2 12 11 1 9 8
9: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2 12 11 10 9
10: 11 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 12 1 10
11: 6 10 9 8 7 1 5 4 3 2 12 11

======================================================================================
One Crown (or unknown crowns) Contest:
--------------------------------------
Entry id 1: MFChess
Entry id 2: Noonian
Entry id 3: Pierre
Entry id 4: Raffaela
Entry id 5: Shaki
Entry id 6: TSCP
Entry id 7: Larsen VB
Entry id 8: Crux

Entry ID
\ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
round \................................................
1: 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
2: 5 8 7 6 1 4 3 2
3: 2 1 8 7 6 5 4 3
4: 6 3 2 8 7 1 5 4
5: 3 4 1 2 8 7 6 5
6: 7 5 4 3 2 8 1 6
7: 4 6 5 1 3 2 8 7
======================================================================================

Hi,
first : I volunteer for participating .
A few questions though :
a.) time controls : another proposal ; how about 45/10 ? I tried this alot recently and it seems to be a nice compromise ; games last about 2 hours and programs that have difficulties with time control are safe with the 10 sec increment ; I found out that for me it is also a time control where I can follow the games with my own thoughts in a comfortable way , the progs choosing high-level moves while still not taking that long .
b.) OS : I am particularly interested in the 3 - crown sections as semi-official bringer-supporter ; here I have difficulties with Inmi as it won't run under NT , how deal with programs that won't work on one of your compis without reinstalling OS ?
c.) prog settings ; as an example I take Bringer ( as I know it best ) ; "my" opening book is about 20 MB and if I want it it takes me 5 minutes to tune it a little to the cct1-settings of the last 2 rounds which makes the book _way_ superior to the book included in download ( btw the medium book offered for download would be ok too as it is reasonably large ) .
d.) tablebases : here I agree to you : this is mostly over-estimated ; I would be very surprised if it is more than 10 points for any prog
e.) more advanced settings ; for example bringer has 3 hashtables ; I currently run it mostly with 50000 , 15000 , 6400 and 16384 ( quite important as Bringer uses tablebases in quiescence ) for cache ; while this may be sub-optimal games played with the default settings which are very conservative to allow it to be used also on older compis without problems will for sure change the outcome .
I want to add : I like your idea of making it a tourney run by several operators ; this increases interests and also limits error margins .
Also I like the idea of games played on two computers even if it makes work harder for some operators ; I am one of the supporters of the idea that pondering changes a lot . Even more this should guarantee that the games are watched and therefor we will hear personal impressions of the operators that are usually much more interesting than a simple 10,5 - 4,5 with pgn added .
good luck for this idea and I hope for lots of operators .
greetings.
pete

[Gabor Szots]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Gabor Szots at 28 February 2000 08:49:51:
Als Antwort auf:/As an answer to: Re: Battle of the Crowns -- pairings and contests (Looking for volunteers) geschrieben von:/posted by: Dann Corbit at 25 February 2000 23:29:08:

I suggest that we normalize on a PII 300 MHz machine. Slower or faster machines could be used, and we would adjust time intervals accordingly. A 266 MHz PII would get (300/266) time increments and a 500 MHz PII would get (300/500) times as long to play. If someone wants to use something below a Pentium Pro class machine, we can run a crafty benchmark on that machine and normalize with that.

What is the time factor for a Celeron 433? What is a Crafty benchmark and how can I run it?

[Volker Pittlik]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Volker Pittlik at 28 February 2000 14:53:46:
Als Antwort auf:/As an answer to: Re: Battle of the Crowns -- pairings and contests (Looking for volunteers) geschrieben von:/posted by: Gabor Szots at 28 February 2000 08:49:51:

What is the time factor for a Celeron 433?
What is a Crafty benchmark and how can I run it?

Dont' know.
1. start Crafty in a DOS box or simply click on it within the explorer.
2. type "bench"
Volker